Man you would be a great Chinese guy under a tree – you are a master of the opaque! You once told me that Paulo Coelho was a cold reader, I must say you’re quite the master at it yourself

Wouldn’t you agree that there is a certain polarity in all people, a continuum that vacillates between extremely masculine and agressive, and very feminine and sensitive? I would say all of us are looking for the balance between the two that fits our individual needs.

And this is just one of the aspects. Life is like a DJ mixer: every slider (of which masculine-feminine polarity is just one) represents an aspect of our personality and consequent results, and we are the composers.

I agree that this is a mysterious, ephemerical journey where nothing is clear-cut and we must let go of what we know and venture into the unknown if we are to grow and discover. As Deida says, we must look for our edge and constantly push it. Are you implying Angel and I aren’t doing that?

I have never said it like that Angel.
You are overinterpretating my words.

To state things clear. I don’t want you to come from another place then the heart.
And I hope you don’t see me as one of the karate clan.

I have noticed that both you and P.R. look at seduction as a two way road: the agressive masculine road and the sensual feminine road.

P.R. once told me in bar Depot that life – people – concepts of love – etc are too complicated and ingenius too label them in two or three categories.

He sometimes would like to see it that simple, as many people do, but he can’t any more because he has seen the more complex reality, so he told me then (with the Egyptian girl looking for attention at that moment).

This topic deals with convictions – beliefs – views on life.

You guys may see it black and white, but I really prefer the colourfull rainbow mentality.

Life is not always about knowing how to live in the now, but living in the mystery.

Angel, when you will do that, you will no longer quote the karate trauma. You want to see it bigger as it is, as you also idolise the Russians (more then they deserve).
There is so much more in life. Please don’t let your emperic eye be influenced and limited by the number of years under a certain regime, or the number of woman with who you slept with (why defending yourself at that point???), but by the quality of the infinite diversity.

To make this all concrete in insightfull, I would suggest you to watch “De helaasheid der dingen”.
The group of brothers have the same kind of stupid ethics about love and bromance as the karate clan. But in the movie, the youngest (and only one of the family) can detash himself from the collective family destiny and MOVE FORWARD .. alone .. but not alone.

I’m just saying it so you could feel young again and get with 20-year-old girls

Thanks for the comment.

On having lots of female friends; I’ve been experimenting with the more passive approach lately and I must say it’s beginning to frustrate me. Yes I have girl friends and yes, I do have sex. And yes, it’s fun to go have drinks and relax with some chicks and hug and so on. Maybe I’ll even end up dating one of my girl friends.

On the other hand, I’ve been losing other girls because I’m holding back in agressivity. I’ve had it with being called a ‘player’ so I go more low-key, only for the moment it’s more dopey than low-key in my eyes. I’m losing my edge, and it doesn’t feel good.

I’m not saying I’m going back to agressive, because that isn’t perfect either. It’s that middle ground, between relaxing with girl friends and going for girl friends. Not sure if I should split those nights out, or how to combine them if I don’t.

Could you please elaborate this?*

little late but of course: first of all, let me start by saying this: I am a very empiric person. This means I learn best from experiences and not necessarily mine. Experiences that others have while I am with them tend to influence my own way of behaving for some reason.

I guess that this partly explains why I sometimes come across as ‘the old wise man’. However, I only try to help other people with it or at least point them in (what I think) is the right direction. Whether they chose it or not is ultimately their choice, no ?

Now, back to Cruise’s question: you can be very good with women by not coming from the heart as well. I spent my entire childhood (hey, you asked) with men that would LIE/CHEAT/BUY women. Yes, they would lie to their wives, fuck girls that were 20 years younger than them by telling them that they would divorce and give them all the money they want. I have seen men, no best friends, that were REAL friends for years and were still sleeping with each other wives without them knowing it. I have seen men that beat up other men to be able to leave with a girl, I have seen men drugging women to sleep with them.

Sorry of again sounding like an old men, but I wanted to illustrate that being a ladies man can also be very dangerous and you asked for it. Probably my need to ’save’ women comes from this part of my childhood.

this brings me to the second thing I want to comment about:

*To keep the momentum, I want to say that I agree in part with Cruise when he says Angel
likes to talk about ‘I’ve seen so many…’ and ‘I can’t count the times that I…’ which
makes him look like some wise old man with a harem gasping admiringly up to him,
while he is just a guy like us who has, as Cruise rightly remarks, probably not seen
as much of all of this as he claims *

Yes, PR, you are right: I have NOT seen as much as you both if you would look at the number of women I slept with. As I said, I am empiric and derive much of my character from my past. On the other hand, I have never claimed that I have slept with hunderds of women either

If you look at 10 women being the average that a man sleeps with in his life and the number 50 which in my opinion starts to be really good, I am in between.

It is strange, for some reason, you dont see many in-between guys in the ‘community’. Either they have no women in their life, or they have plenty…

But my way of treating women has given me many female friends that have been in my life for years and for which I am very grateful, while still having enough sex to not make me ‘needy’ with others.

Something (female friends) I have yet to encounter in the ‘community’ btw. Everything is so ’short term’ based: in my opinion a totally wrong attitude …

(your thoughts on this would be appreciated)

And finally, yes PR, I can learn a lot from Cruise, and from you. And I learn every time a bit more: a heartfelt thanks to you both !

ps: I will try now to stop acting like a old man )

Angel

Your day and night distinction is rubbisch.
Think about it. You are just backwards rationalising why in the eve you are superficial and in the day you are intense. Give us a break!

I don’t think that Fizmo was complaining about the amount of time (the lack), but about the quality of the connection.

That you basicly gave the impression of being in a hurry, having to divide your attention … why? … because more then likely you divided your attention to play the game of chess in order to get what you want. So he was just a chess piece?

There were moments in THE GAME where me also I was playing it very hard, very focused, very selfisch. I became fucking pissed when wings in the field were commenting on my black nail pollisch, answering them that they could give me the narrow minded talk once I was out of the field.

You see the distinction you make?
Day and night?
Out field and in field?
Your friends should be your friends all the time!!!

Imagine your 4 year old daughter comes to you during a business lunch and says: “Look daddy, I cut my finger” and you tell her: “Oh, I’ll give it a quick kiss. Ok, go to mummie now. I’m sure she takes further care of you. I’m concerned. Yeah! I’m concerned!”

Hope you see my point P.R.
When you haven’t seen FRIENDS in a long time, or when they are a bit down, all the rest should fall down and you should give priority to your FRIENDS.

This is what I told to another friend of mine, Eagle.
Somehow I gave up hope that he would understand me, because I sincerely think that he has never had a real good friend for whom he jumped and vice versa.

Do you remember that time at the private boat party in Ghent near Vooruit? I was there with my cousin and suddenmy had to leave. The party wasn’t even started as we were all upper deck. I told you the emergency reason why I left, but you never even asked me about it later. I’m sure you didn’t believe me when I told you my mum just fell in the kitchen and that no-one could help her back on her feet. So you forgot the words as quickly as I spoke them. That’s how much concerned you were that eve, at least in the relation to me.
No hard feelings bro.
Serious. I’m just telling you this so you might listen more carefully when people talk to you.
Listening is a quality that few seducers really have.
When people say you talk too much, then you might have to think this over, because it could mean: “You don’t understand what I’m saying here!”

And I’m sure that sometimes you DO LISTEN to other P.R
But sometimes you don’t, like now when Fizmo sincerely checked the amount of friendship in your relation.
I have no doubt you guys are still buddies, but when my good friend would write such a thing, I would seriously think about it and how to act differently in the future, rather then giving him my vision on how I play chess.

Its plain simple: weather you agree, weather you disagree with his comment.
There is no: “yes, but”.
And if you agree, you should walk your talk.

One of the reasons why people don’t really listen, is because of a certain arrogance in them as if they have heard it already a million times and are so tired hearing it again.
Sure, we all know the theory about quality time and being genuine, but how often do we put it into practice.

Me also I expected a certain form of priority treatment when I visited you during summer at the picknick in Ghent.
But instead of inviting me to your place, you called me to change the plan, so we met directly in the parc.
No problem so far, but when I got really hungry – I originally assumed your were going to prepare me a small thing as promised – I felt stupid not having eaten in advance.
So far no problem, but when you then asked me: “What’s up Cruise? Are you ok?”
And I told you: “Yes, but I’m hungry and I want to know where we are heading”
Your answer was amazingly brutal: “Do you need some attention? If you want some attention, you just ask me.”
I could not belief my ears.
No other guy ever told me in such a “I am the price way” that I was the needy one. And it was no joke. You really wanted to make clear to me that you had THE ENERGY to offer.

I honoustly belief that you have no idea about you probably threatening ALL THE PEOPLE OF THE WORLD like this, as if they have nothing to offer you. Logically you don’t wanna pay any real attention to what they say …
For you, mostly it’s all a game, especially after 6 pm. (-;
Gonna write that down, so that I won’t get dissapointed next time your look right through me.
All in respect what I’m saying here man.
I’m just pitchpointing some concrete occasions.
And again, me also I sometimes behave like this, but less and less.

Let’s all forget about chess games and celebrate this Saturday in Brussels as friends.

Cheers

I’m very appreciative for your honesty here. I love seeing your different personalities shine through and how we don’t shun being painfully honest without it turning into ego-battles. Thank you for this.

To keep the momentum, I want to say that I agree in part with Cruise when he says Angel likes to talk about ‘I’ve seen so many…’ and ‘I can’t count the times that I…’ which makes him look like some wise old man with a harem gasping admiringly up to him, while he is just a guy like us who has, as Cruise rightly remarks, probably not seen as much of all of this as he claims

I will give it to him though, Cruise, that he is way better at creating rapport in writing than you are and isn’t storytelling part of the skill set of an interesting person? Making it human and recognisable… I think you could learn from that.

And Angel, I think you can learn from Cruise’s drive and intellect. He is able to create an ideal, something to strive towards. Maybe you miss that sometimes which is why you fall back on things that you already know, and spend time in an illustre past…

You guessed it: I’m pinning myself to the shooting post here – it’s like in rugby, once you start liking the pain there’s no stopping it

I could understand it if you were only with that new girl, but you say a girlfriend you know came back from holiday and you wanted to know how she was doing, well it was also a long time since we spoke and I felt like I missed an oppurtinity to talk to you (a nightclub isn’t the ideal environment I know).

Could be that I blame others, I try to keep my inner state as happy as possible, I had an ok night (the girlfriend who came back from her holiday is an interesting girl, you could have told me she had a boyfriend btw :p). I will keep in mind of not trying to blame others, and talk to you at the moment if something is ‘bothering’ me.

I like to know what’s going on inside that crazy head of yours, so talk to me once in a while, you maniac :p,

See you soon

Fiz

Thanks for this. It stings but that means some of it is true!

I agree but I do think it’s a bit exaggerated what you say. One, we haven’t been going out together that much so you don’t really know how I’ve been.

It is true though that I have a tendency to wander off. I’ve spent considerable time on this and I do believe it’s better than before. Basically, when I’m out I still like going around instead of staying in one place the whole time. It comes very natural to me, and I don’t think I should change it completely.

Because I don’t think this impedes genuine connection at all. Most people that I’m close with, I am with that way because we spend time with each other during the day, in our private lives. Not just in public time. Going out to a bar on Friday night after I’ve worked a whole week in an office with as company just my colleague, is for me a time to be with friends and meet new people. It’s not the time for me to start deep conversations with my friends – or at least, not in first instance. If it happens, it happens and I’ll be all the happier for it. But it’s not what I’m looking for on Friday nights.

My date didn’t mind me leaving her alone, and I thought she was in good company so I had no worries about her being bored also, I know that my friends are social beings so everyone takes care of each other. The other girl is a really good friend of mine that just came back from holiday so I wanted to hear the latest from her. And her friends were interesting, so I took some time to get to know them. They weren’t stunners so you can’t say I did it to game them eh

Basically, I don’t have the feeling I was running around trying to make any impressions or achieve something in particular. I showed my date some bars in town, introduced her to my friends (she liked you by the way, and said thanks for being so nice to her. She said you should become a standup comedian!), and danced a bit. And I met up with my friends, and introduced them to each other as well. Honestly, for me this was a really cool night where I divided my attention well. And yes, I do think it’s about dividing my attention when I’m out. Like I said, undivided attention is for during the day, or when it happens to be so during the night. Don’t you agree? I’m not saying I’m perfect at it, but it’s about the principle on which you base your interactions.

For me, it’s well-divided attention. I used to spend too much time with strangers, and not enough with my friends. Last Friday though, were all friends except the two girls with my other girl friend. So in my score book, that was pretty good

Which is where my feedback to you comes in: I think you may not have managed to convey what you wanted that night, and that that’s working through in your estimation of me. I don’t want to generalise but I do think it’s a tendency of yours to blame others for your feelings or results. When you’re talking about me ignoring you, I didn’t have that feeling at all. I was actually very conscious of you that night and spent some time talking about you to my friends, advertising you If you want to talk to me more, please just talk to me more.

Het kan ook zijn omdat ik mezelf afsluit als mensen te dicht bij komen en ik zo zeer een ‘loner’ ben en gericht op mijn eigen realiteit en wereld dat ik moeilijk iemand er permanent in kan laten leven. Héél af en toe ontmoet ik vrouw waarvoor ik mijn ‘losse relaties’-levensstijl voor zou kunnen opgeven, een vrouw waar ik dag en nacht aan denk, dat me verandert in een onzeker jongetje, dat me een warm gevoel geeft in mijn buik. Dit gevoel voelt zo goed, omdat ik steeds op zoek ben naar iets unieks, moet ik dit gevoel dan negeren, dit gevoel waar ik eigenlijk naar op zoek ben, een vrouw die werkelijk ‘iets met me doet’, me raakt tot in mijn ziel?

Als je een vrouw verteld dat je polyamoureus bent, zal zij dit misschien niet zo erg vinden, maar ze zal zich ook niet ten volle aan je overgeven volgens mij. Polyamoureus zijn is volgens mij ‘het eeuwige zoeken’, je opties open houden, jezelf niet volledig bloot geven. Er zijn altijd facetten die bij de éné vrouw aantrekkelijker zijn dan de andere, maar geduld, oprechte interesse en doorzettingsvermogen kunnen er soms toe leiden dat je iemand pas echt leert appreciëren en ik weet niet of je dat proces een kans gunt.

Ik ben sowieso iemand die duidelijk is vanaf het begin. Ofwel is het met woorden (‘ik kan je niet garanderen dat dit tot een vaste relatie leidt. In het begin wil ik gewoon fun hebben en zien of het klikt. Ik kan je geen exclusiviteit garanderen’). Dit weerspiegelt zich ook in het feit dat ik haar niet constant bel of mee afspreek of nog andere vrouwen aanspreek als zij erbij is. Tuurlijk ga ik dit niet in de eerste minuten zeggen dat ik een vrouw aanspreek, maar voor ik met een vrouw naar bed ga, moet ze dit weten en ik ga ook nooit op voorhand de illusie wek dat ik het direct serieus meen. Ik vind eerlijkheid belangrijk bij mezelf en anderen en die oprechtheid zorgt ervoor dat ik vind dat ik geen misbruik maak van vrouwen, maar hen in mijn wereld ‘betrek’ als zij dat willen. Willen ze dit niet of kunnen ze er niet mee om, geen probleem, ze weten dan tenminste waar ik sta en waar zij staat.

Mijn mening, open voor discussie,

Fiz