Very excited to introduce Fizmo’s guest post, as it contains some juicy subjects we’d like to hear your opinions about. So without further ado: the Fizz!
Just a few quick thoughts ….
To persevere or to let go
One of the key dilemmas I still have when I want to attract a woman is finding the balance between showing interest and not being too involved. If I show too much interest, she has the ‘I already have him, this guy isn’t popular with other girls’-feeling and she loses attraction; if on the other hand I don’t push it hard enough, a girl might get the feeling of me not really wanting her.
To persevere or to let go, that is the question. I want her to know that I like her, and also let her know that I have other options; that I am an independent man. It keeps me puzzled.
Corny flakes
I also get a lot of flakes, even after having a great night. I like to call girls the day after I met them, just for a casual talk, to see what she’s up to and let her know what I am up to, but often they don’t answer the phone or return my message.
I like to really get to know girls when I meet them, so my objective on an evening out is mostly having a good time and seeing what she’s all about – if it matches her pretty face and/or body of course :p
So after a great night (according to me) and getting lots of signals that she’s interested, I might kiss a girl or not. I hardly ever push it to sex though, mostly because I want to have the feeling that I sleep with a personality – with a gorgeous body – and that she likes me for me being me; that it’s not just one-night entertainment. Else I don’t really have a good feeling the next day when we both wake up, because the attraction was mostly superficial.
Maybe … getting to know her personality is something which will happen if the sex is good though. Sexuality is the attraction language of women and maybe when I call or text her the next day, my impact on her is less (although I think the anticipation is higher), then if I would have slept with her.
What do you guys think? How do you keep the anticipation up without hitting the sack from day one?
Staying out of my head
There is still the classic problem: it’s easy being cool and not being affected by the outcome with girls that I like, just not in a ‘girlfriend -way’. They stick on me like glue. And then when I see a girl I really like, my stomach gets all rumbled up again. I turn into a little insecure boy who starts analysing and rationalising everything and starts to get in his head so much, I feel like Dustin Hoffman in “Rain Man”. Why is human behaviour so irrational sometimes…
By the way I think the biggest achievement I reached with PUA, is staying out of my head as much as possible. As soon as I hear that voice coming up, I tell myself “ back to the reality that lays before me”. It helps me a great deal to get the flow going and keep conversations and situations natural.
The alabaster girl?
It’s crazy; when I was taking my first steps into the PUA-jungle nearly two years ago, I really fell in love with a girl called V. Almost two years later, she’s still there, shining on her pedestal. Is it because she really is that wonderful to me and all comparisons with other girls turn into dust, or have I just made a private goddess of her… makes me wonder.
Will I ever have a steady relationship, I ask myself sometimes. Starting from “De Gentse Feesten” I decided to quit looking for a stable relationship, I am happy as I am, really not steady relationship-material at the moment. Most of my friends tell me ‘I just haven’t met the right girl’.
The dark side
I think there is a dark side to PUA. It’s the constant need for re-affirmation of one’s persona and pick up skills. As soon as you catch a beautiful female butterfly in your web, you lose interest – look at all those other beautiful butterflies that fly around! It’s a never-ending quest, where the hunter becomes addicted to the hunt, not the catch. Because the hunt makes him feel alive.
The hunter doesn’t feel like a hunter anymore when he sits there in his kitchen, cooking up the food and saying to himself ‘I reached what I wanted, I can now be a hunter sitting inside’. He would feel like a houseman then, not a hunter, although he knows he still has the skills.
I wonder if long-lasting love is out there for me, or if I just don’t allow myself to get that feeling. Could be that I’m afraid of being dependent on someone. I like to be on my own and when someone gets too close, I feel cornered and want to run away.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not jealous of most relationships. Most of my friends and people’s relationships, to me, seem very mediocre and dull after a while. That would be a death penalty for my kick-seeking persona.
On the other hand, some relationships seem great and aren’t we in PUA for exactly this reason, to really find that perfect match or at least give us the possibility of filtering through all the bad ones to find something better for us?
PUAs in an LTR
I want to ask something to you guys who are in the seduction community and now have a long lasting relationship or had one at some point: how was this girl different to all the others? How did you deal with the cold turkey of being with one single woman?
When you see another beautiful woman, don’t you think: “Wouldn’t she be better?”, or “I would like to get to know her?” I know you can still hang around and talk to other women, but personally I feel I have real good conversations with women when I make them sexual and flirtatious, but I still think when you really want to go for a long-lasting relationship you should stop sexually seeing other woman. It makes the bond unique (maybe that’s just an old AFC-framework of mine).
Also, when I am taking it to the sexual or flirtatious level I only do it when I’m really interested in her, else it feels like I’m playing with her emotions. I like the approach “treat other people like you would like to be treated”, and I wouldn’t like to be played with either.
Enough rationalising! Time get outside my head again and focus on the reality that lays before me. Which is exciting… 
You live and you learn they say, maybe I should learn how to live without all this living feeling like learning.
Your homey,
Fiz
9 responses so far ↓
Wim // September 24, 2009 at 8:04 am |
Fizmo,
It’s so recognizable where you are. There isn’t one thing you mention that I haven’t pondered about myself.
> One of the key dilemmas I still have when I want to attract a woman is finding
> the balance between showing interest and not being too involved
When you have a goal in life, that is not her, you know where you stand in life, you can show all the interest you want. You don’t have to be afraid of going to far, as long as you keep centered in “yourself”.
I myself found this hard to understand, so I hope it’s clear. It’s a case that your interest in her has to be an of expression of yourself.
> So after a great night (according to me) and getting lots of signals that she’s
> interested, I might kiss a girl or not. I hardly ever push it to sex though,
> mostly because I want to have the feeling that I sleep with a personality –
> with a gorgeous body – and that she likes me for me being me; that it’s not
> just one-night entertainment. Else I don’t really have a good feeling the next
> day when we both wake up, because the attraction was mostly superficial.
I think having sex with a girl is one of the best ways of getting to know her.
Also, sex doesn’t have to be one night. If you two really click, why stop at one night? That doesn’t mean it has to be serious.
>
> I think there is a dark side to PUA. It’s the constant need for re-affirmation
> of one’s persona and pick up skills.
Excellent point!
Sidenote: is this really is a bad thing, because it’s about the journey, not the destination. I guess when you forget to appreciate what you have, it will become negative for you.
> I want to ask something to you guys who are in the seduction community and now
> have a long lasting relationship or had one at some point: how was this girl
> different to all the others?
I’m in a monogamous LTR now since june. It was hard in the beginning… She broke up because I was unhappy, then I broke up… But I clearly felt that was a misake. I stopped listening to the principles in my head (a lot of which were community dogma) and started following my feeling. My girlfriend is almost everything I want in a girl, physically, emotionally and mentally, so I believe such a great person is worth some sacrifices.
How do I know it’s not too much? As long as I feel happy, I continue with what I’m doing (I monitor that carefully).
Yes, I do miss the “hunt”, the potential… I’m still experimenting what I can do about that.
Wim
nouvelle // September 25, 2009 at 11:27 am |
Some interesting thoughts here!
I’ll comment on more points later but this one really struck me!
“but I still think when you really want to go for a long-lasting relationship you should stop sexually seeing other woman.”
The opposite my friend. Really.
If you stop flirting and talking sexually to other women the relationship is condemned!
Be sexual with your female friends, flirt with strangers in a bar, your girlfriend secretly wants you to, plus she also does it and it’s ok!
This is not cheating and it’s nothing to feel guilty about!
More thoughts later!
-nouvelle
phoenixriver // September 28, 2009 at 10:37 am |
I like the way this post is evolving!
About the LTR: I like Wim’s and Nouvelle’s answer alike. For me, being a flirty sexual person is who I am. I’m not looking to change that when I meet someone.
Look, in this search for a better way of dealing with women, and dealing with life, things have changed for me. The way I look at life has changed, and from what I see so has yours (Fizz, Wim and Nouvelle alike). We are not the kind of guys we used to be anymore.
That also means that our thinking and feeling is now different. What used to be the standards for conduct (like being nice and not looking at other women when you’re in a relationship), don’t necessarily apply anymore.
It’s all about reality, and how you form it by your convictions. If you believe certain things, you will attract these things into your life. In this way, you create what works for you.
So when you believe that the woman for you is someone that loves your flirty and sexual, male dominant nature while still keeping her own confidence and femininity, then this is what you’ll find.
Fizz, you’re a thrill seeker and you like challenges and variety (so do I by the way). Then this is what you need to look for! No other kind of relationship will satisfy you, and I am absolutely convinced that it’s out there.
About V. – I think this is a great standard for what kind of girl you like! I think you’re emotionally attached to getting her as this was the goal of many of the things you’ve done the last year to evolve. Personally, I’m absolutely convinced that someday soon you’ll have the choice to be with her or not. Just keep pursuing the path you’re on, keep evolving and you WILL be that guy
-> Missions in life
Like Wim says, when you have a mission in life besides women, they become an interesting sidekick, an addition to a puzzle that already has the side parts done (for puzzle dummies, if you ever have to make a puzzle: start with the sides :p).
Then you can give them the attention that you naturally feel for them, because you don’t risk losing yourself. And because your identity is lined out, they will accept whoever you are at the time when you meet them – it’s what attracts her to you in the first place!
We shouldn’t confuse this with a great woman trying to change you or testing your composure. I do believe that women do this naturally. Some test us more than others so you choose the amount of strife you choose to allow. But let’s face it: we love the ones that give us a hard time
So when we find that special girl that makes us happy and excited and we decide to give her a shot, what we need to do is NOT change to accommodate her. We are on our own growth path, and we do what we do. When meeting her, we can be interested and even captivated, without lapsing into the way of thinking that she will be the one to ’save’ us. And in being with her, we retain this independence. It’s a daily exercise in following our path, staying in the role of lover and not becoming a child, and maintaining our woman-loving lifestyle so she doesn’t forget how lucky she is to have met us
-> A constant relationship
Another thing. About having relationships: I think it’s a good idea to constantly be in some kind of relationship. I know this girl and she’s constantly in ‘relationships’. When I ask what she means, it’s that she’s seeing this one guy that she hasn’t slept with, or a guy that she slept with once but she’s not sure… However disfunct it is, she calls it a relationship and it gives her the security that she’s taken care of, in some way.
Why would we deny ourselves this kind of base to go from? I’m sure every one of you knows a girl that they can comfortably see without having to give up your goals and lifestyle – even if it means being somewhat opaque about how you spend your time. A girl that isn’t necessarily the one to make kids with, but that you get along with well and feel good about.
Because not every relationship needs to be ‘the ONE’. I used to think that I would only engage in a relationship when I found the alabaster chick. But there are so many in-between relationships out there, it’s just not funny.
Another girl I know has a decidedly brother-sister relationship with her boyfriend, and my guess is she’s just waiting for the right guy to come along before she breaks it off and leaves.
I suggest we do the same! Get regular sex, Sunday evening hugs, someone to call when the rain is chilling our weary soul… You don’t need to commit to marriage to get these things. And it makes meeting other girls so much easier. And there are plenty of girls out there who are looking for the exact same thing; some warmth and comfort while they wait for their dream lover to come along.
What do you think?
Wim // September 28, 2009 at 11:22 am |
On your question:
Yes and no. We don’t need any relationship. At the same time I regard every connection I have as a relationship, but it a friendship, a colleague, a lover, a wife. (I think both points are the actually the same mindset, view from opposites sides.)
As you say, we changed, and one of those changes was that I no longer put relationships into either the bracket ‘platonic friend’ and bracket ‘LTR girlfriend’, but so much inbetween — and maybe more importantly: also outside them! Take the US concept of dating for instance, which is sort of inbetween one-night-stands and and LTR… It is practically unknown here.
Tnx for the comments,
Wim
phoenixriver // September 28, 2009 at 12:15 pm |
Hey Wim,
Good point! I’m talking about at any point in time having at least one woman in your life that you are giving love to, and receiving love from. In whatever form or intensity. And preferably with sex
Fizmo // October 2, 2009 at 1:46 pm |
Wim: When you have a goal in life, that is not her, you know where you stand in life, you can show all the interest you want. You don’t have to be afraid of going to far, as long as you keep centered in “yourself”.
I myself found this hard to understand, so I hope it’s clear. It’s a case that your interest in her has to be an of expression of yourself.
=> I kinda found a way in between “to persevere and to let go” but it’s hard to describe. I just go on with my life, have fun, meets girls, and keep the interesting ones around me and let em know sometimes that they are important to me, but mostly just to hang out and have fun, without promising them exclusivity. I used to call girls the day after I met them, now I use the method of calling or sending a message the day after I feel I wanna send a message, takes some of the neediness away that still is inside me. For the moment, it seems to work. I send the same text-message to twelve girls on Monday, and ten girls replied. So I think it’s good to have several girls in your life, just to know you have options and it helps you to stay relaxed. I used to think that time erases the impression you made on a girl, but if you keep you life, your phone calls and your messages interesting, girls still seem to recall the attraction they had in the first place and you can pick up where you left off.
Wim: I guess when you forget to appreciate what you have, it will become negative for you.
=> Although it’s true what you say, you can appreciate too much what you have and then it also becomes negative for you I think. Every time I look back at my AFC-period and look at my present “success”, I still get an ego inflation and gloat a little when I look at other people who just “don’t seem to get it”. When I look at how happy I am now, compared with the depression and negative self-image I had a few years ago, it’s almost incredible and a little voice keeps saying “I want more, I want more” Maybe it’s still the divide between my old and my new identity, where I just have “to be”, instead of “acting like”, still my old me sometimes says to me “you lost your innocence”. It’s hard to combine authenticity and all those rules, frameworks, perceptions, tactics, stages, etc … that I unconsciously have learned and adopted.
Wim: I stopped listening to the principles in my head (a lot of which were community dogma) and started following my feeling. My girlfriend is almost everything I want in a girl, physically, emotionally and mentally, so I believe such a great person is worth some sacrifices.
=> How do you stop listening to the principles in your head I wonder, cause even if you say “ I started following my feeling”, that still seems a pretty rational decision. How do you get in touch with your feelings, cause with all these (as I said before, frameworks, perceptions, tactics, stages, etc …) it seems you (unconsciously) screen your actions, behaviors, conversations, feelings by these principles.
Nouvelle : If you stop flirting and talking sexually to other women the relationship is condemned!
=> Why is it condemned, do you think you can never have an exclusive relationship, because of how your thinking is wired now? (just a question) Don’t you ever get tired of all this hunting and the principles sometimes, and just wanna chill and totally be yourself? I like the way it is now and I have a blast, I meet tons of new women and people and have never kissed so much girls and had so much sex, but I think there will be a stage in my life when the restlessness inside me has to tone down a little to have some stability and girls who stay for a long time (or permanently) in my life, a lot of time this isn’t the case at the moment.
Phoenix: About the LTR: I like Wim’s and Nouvelle’s answer alike. For me, being a flirty sexual person is who I am. I’m not looking to change that when I meet someone.
=> I am just wondering that if you are in an LTR Phoenix if you really wouldn’t mind that your girlfriend would be flirty and sexual with a lot of guys, and has sex with some of them. I am not talking about a casual relationship, but I mean really a deep, emotional, sexual, deep relationships which you see long-term.
Phoenix: It’s all about reality, and how you form it by your convictions. If you believe certain things, you will attract these things into your life. In this way, you create what works for you.
=> This means that if you aren’t stable, your attract unstable girls, so if you have an unstable character, you will have a hard time finding a stable girl. (just an observation I make, seems to be a reason, why I already attracted a horde of crazy psychochicks) :p
Phoenix: It’s a daily exercise in following our path, staying in the role of lover and not becoming a child, and maintaining our woman-loving lifestyle so she doesn’t forget how lucky she is to have met us
=> That seems to be one of the most important reasons for me to still be sexual and flirtatious with women, to show that you still are “the prize” and you have other options. Or do other people know other ways to show this to a woman? If this is not the case, and women crave for the status-show off, there seems to be not other solution than to keep being the amazing guy that I am and prove it to the (female) world. Off to a new adventure !!!!
Cruise // October 6, 2009 at 1:11 pm |
To persevere or to let go?
Once you stop asking yourself that question, you will feel goooooood.
Because, you will act instead of re-act.
You will radiate your true self, rather then searching for it.
Beeing puzzled is ok for a while, but then it has to stop at a certain moment.
Cfr. conscious competence learning matrix
http://www.businessballs.com/consciouscompetencelearningmodel.htm
Best way to get there it through practice, which is a do-thing, no a thinking-thing.
That brings me to your third title: Staying out of my head
One way to get away from there: get INTO your body.
I leave it up to you how you fill in that idea, but one thing is for sure, the body awareness is something amazing as it raised the total awareness of a person.
Then: the corny flakes
See this as an indication that you are not doing it well in the beginning.
So focus on the first parts of The Game.
Beeing very authentic, so no surprises after a while, nor for you, nor for her.
I appreciate your honesty about your feelings when it comes to rapid sexual escalation and the next morning regret.
Maybe patience and building up tension is indeed the way to improof authenticity and genuine behaviour.
To each his own.
But why should time really be a parameter for LOVE (real emotions instead of artificial ones)?
Are we really such victims of the consumption society that we want to apply the “bying principle” into our relationships, as if we must have the feeling that we have actively and consciously chosen, thinking yes no, yes no (twenty times) first? Or can we make the same decision quicker? Are we so blind that we can’t see a person how she or he is afer a short while? What creates the artificial part?
At my opinion polyamoury comes with a deep knowledgde of ourselves, which only comes with a deep knowledge of others.
When people need the “hold on, not too fast baby”, maybe that’s an indication that they don’t know themselves good enough yet, or they have forgotten who they are. Identity crisises are not age related. In fact, they are perfect opportunities to discover, to live an adventure, etc.
Good luck with it Fizz
Fizmo // October 6, 2009 at 1:17 pm |
Thx for taking the time to reply Cruise, I appreciate it, I will ponder over this one, much love,
Fizz
Cruise // October 8, 2009 at 1:39 pm |
Good good. And in the meantime .. you can always introduce me to your old classmate: Anke (-;
The girl now has her own radio program!!