So here we are again. Last time, I said I would be going for bombshells from now on. I am pleased to say that I now have two bona fide bombs in my phone, and sad to announce that I am at a loss on how to handle the situation. The regular rules don’t seem to apply, or my panic is not allowing me to think clearly and confidently.
I’ve been asking and getting all kinds of advice from my friends, but it’s all over the place so it seems I’m stuck to figuring it out by myself, making mistakes until I get the ropes of this and start wondering what the hassle ever was – you know the feeling right 
So far I’ve been in contact with these girls by texting them the day after and twice, it started out very sweet, after which I guess I think I slightly overdid it by sending yet another text. In my enthusiasm, I thought I might just as well get the dialogue going, get talking by text. That didn’t work out in both cases, meaning I’m now at a point you could call ‘The First Lull’. I’m sure you’ve all had this: you start out hot, then you start working on follow-up and it seems to fall flat on its ass, and you wonder if you should keep pursuing her or if she already thinks you’re a stalker after four texts
So there I am; my strategy now is aimed at making these girls feel comfortable around me. I tried being direct and that seems to be a bit too much. So what I’ll try now is to offer value, in the shape of fun texts and comments that need no answer but that do kind of entertain her. Not indefinitely of course.
But of course, I’m open to your suggestions. Help!
8 responses so far ↓
Angel // April 14, 2009 at 1:35 am |
wow,
where to start on this one… You might not like what I am gonna write here, so feel free to skip it if you dont like it
We met a couple of times now and I see a clear pattern. No doubt you are a great ladies man, but you have a minor downside (at this time).
Your way of seduction seems to be build on 90% attraction, mixed with ‘the gift of making her miss you’.
Undoubtebly a very strong combination, but you miss comfort. Ask yourself this: how much of do you ‘really’ know of the girls you have been with, and more importantly, how much did you really CARE what she said/felt ?
I am in no way saying your insensitive, but lately when I saw you, you were all over the place, increasing your value (attraction), but compromising highly on the comfort you were having with the girl you took with you (making you a ‘player’ and coming across somewhat ‘untrustworthy’).
Now, to each his own style of course and what works for me , will not necessarily work for you and the other way around.
But I would add some more comfort, getting to know her, because that, in the end, will make her pick up the phone or answer your texts…
to add something practical:
1. get her number
2. text her the next day with ‘I had a great time yesterday, thanks! Have a great day, Angel’
(nothing sexy, value taking, with ‘you’ statements; just a personal thought of something you FELT while being with her at that time)
3. if answer: call her and meet up.
(not inmediately, but later that day)
4. If she doesnt answer, try again with something funny:
‘hmm, no texts, flowers or chocolate? Are we breaking up?’
Never push it, just try to get her to respond to your texts. Attraction plus humour is hard to deny for any woman.
5. Alternatively, you can call her. She will probably NOT answer. Thats ok, leave a funny voicemail stating your lost your cat and asking if she saw it or try Jeffy’s VM of crying and begging her to call back on Celine Dion (I use that all the time just because it is sooo funny)
6. If still nothing, I would move on: you gave her 2 chances: probably you 2 werent supposed to hook up anyway or the timing just wasnt right …
With ‘phone game’ (yuck, sounds so lame), it is also important to ponder about the feminine point of view.
I talk a lot about phone calls with my female friends and a lot are actually purposely NOT answering the phone the first time.
The reasons can be numerous: she might actually be busy, she might have had already 5 texts/calls that day of other guys, she might thing you are a player, she might not be into you at all, she might think you are a dick, she might be with her boyfriend of which she did not tell you about, …
All above does NOT matter: what does matter is that a lot of the times women do this to see how serious you are about her (and, lets be honest, most players or call waaay too much or give up after 1 try to find the next woman)
Trying 2/3 times is more then enough for me. And my female friends seem to all agree.
What this approach seems to do for me personally, is that I get texts sometimes up to 3 months later of that girl that never responded before (probably because her logistics changed: no more boyfriend, wanting a new relationship, needing validation, …)
Happened to me this weekend…Women…
Angel
phoenixriver // April 14, 2009 at 8:29 am |
Hey Angel,
Thanks for the honest feedback, that’s exactly what I wanted.
Thank you for noticing this pattern; it is indeed something I do, sometimes with success, other times to my detriment. Friday was a bit special as there were three girls there that I liked, so I wanted to spread my attention between them. On top of that, of course, I had to host the party which is something I love doing
So I will take this advice to heart – it’s an extension of my other sticking point, of flying around and forgetting about ‘home base’, the friends that I came with, and having to remember to build the night with them too.
I do think the butterfly game (being all over the place) works really well in nightlife, as you build attraction, social proof, even more atrraction… until it becomes this kind of bomb going off around you
like fishing with dynamite, the fish just come floating up to the surface (only they’re not dead :p). Sometimes you don’t need to build that much comfort – giving them enough so they know it’s possible but not enough to satisfy them is my favourite measure…
Thanks for the phone game stuff, this is very useful. I did some of these points, but I definitely see where it could’ve been better. Funny thing is, last week I thought I messed up with this one girl, and on Friday she came! I was kind of shocked to be honest
so I tried to talk to her a bit as well, which was good. Even though now I’m in just as bad a spot: last week I decided I’d play it cool, and now I’m biting my tongue and thinking about it way too much, which makes me think ‘ just call the damn woman before you think her to death’, which is actually exactly what I’ll do. Only this time I’ll leave a voice message.
About being a ‘player’. I was talking to some girlfriends and they all had this thing where they love ‘projects’. Projects are guys that, according to them, need to be saved. This is actually why they’ll go into a relationship with a particular guy! They’ll see his potential and where’s he’s not meeting it, and ‘intervene’. Two of my previous girlfriends had it, some of my current girl friends have it, and I think pretty much any woman that’s self-confident enough not to need validation all the time does. So, in being a player, am I doing myself harm? Probably, in some people’s eyes. On the other hand, my friends think it’s cool, and their girlfriends think it’s cool. They have a chuckle at my antics which to them, are very entertaining (and to me). They’ll show me girls they think I’d like (no I do not allow myself to be dancing monkey’d so it’s still very nice of them). Insecure girls think I’m untrustworthy but they like me nonetheless, especially because I’ll tell them I’m untrustworthy which makes them trust me – with good reason because I rarely lie about my intentions, and I’m ok with just being friends. Self-assured girls challenge me to see how far I’ll go, and if they can beat me at my own game, which is HIGHLY entertaining. And some people will avoid me I guess, which is a shame, but I don’t need to be friends with everyone.
What I think about the friends thing with women is this: I think it’s super important to have female friends. And I do have quite some by now, probably not as much as I could but I’m still happy about it. One thing though, is that the energy you have with a girl friend and with a woman you want to be with is different, to me very different. It’s like the difference between practicing and playing a ranked competition, or gambling with or without money: the tension is just different, as is the pressure, as is the satisfaction of ‘winning’. Taking it off just deflates the attraction, and if it does work out it’s like rolling in the back door which is fun, but not exciting or inspiring. So I want to be able to deal with that pressure, master it, and in that create MONSTER tension. For me it’s phase 3 of love games: Phase 1 is talking to everyone and seeing that it can be done; Phase 2 is beginning to select and wanting a deeper connection; and Phase 3 is having a social base and going for the godesses. You may say it’s an ego thing, you could also say it’s really romantic: I really want to go out and conquer that girl that I adore.
What I would give you as feedback, Angel, is that you’re a bit too nice at times. You spend all night standing around with the same people, and for some girls it might look a bit tame. It’s the other side of what I do eh – I can see that you hook the girls and that they enjoy your company, but seldom have I seen one really latch onto you. To me, that’s an essential point. I tend to use comfort as a reward for attraction and qualification, rather than the other way around. So I’ll tease and cajole them until they want to play, and then come the hugs and the deep conversation
I just enjoy this a lot more as it keeps things light and feisty. Another, related point is that I think you don’t get out of your comfort zone enough. It’s easy enough to be nice to girls, have great girlfriends, be fulfilled with them and at times pull one into your bed, but are you still challenging yourself? At some point very recently I decided I wanted more than this, I wanted fairy-tale motherfucker attraction and hero storm-weathering persistence at getting what I want, which is a long and painful road. I don’t see that as much in you, but I might be wrong.
I was at the RSD free workshop yesterday and I saw something similar with Ashura. When we got sent out to do a mission of approaching strangers, mister Ashura felt too ’special’ to talk to anyone, as he doesn’t ‘do that kind of thing anymore’. I had a similar inclination but wanted to do it anyway – love a challenge – and once I got into it, enjoyed it fully! Thanks Ken and Veronique by the way, had a great time! Looking back on that evening and who created an atmosphere and had a good time, I honestly think that anyone who thinks they’re above what they had to do to get started (cold approaching people), is not on the right path. And I say that because I’ve used the exact same lines and thoughts before, and seen where it landed me: nowhere. Stuck in mediocre-land with comfortable friends and comfortable sex. Didn’t we start this game out for FIREWORKS and ADVENTURE??? Do we think it’ll come to us because we now know that girls are ‘just girls’???
Anyway, I’m just repeating what you already said
thanks for telling me what you think, keep it coming!
I’m in love « Phoenixriver’s Weblog // April 15, 2009 at 7:57 am |
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Angel // April 16, 2009 at 5:21 pm |
HeyPR,
first of all: thanks for your honest feedback, I really liked it !
I could probably write down 1000 words here, but in the end, they would all be excuses
You are completely right, I do not push myself enough and I know why.
It is definately not that I feel ‘too good’ to open new women. I thoroughly enjoy it still to this day. However, it is not a fixation at this time as I enjoy the time I spend with old friends at well. In the end it is all about balance.
There are 2 reasons I dont push myself at this time:
1. the renovation of my house (which is taking much longer then expected)
2. this one is harder to explain: I entered the rabbit hole years ago and I witnessed a life of SM threesomes, dating a Zillion dancer, having sex with married women and women with children, dating a french, psychotic model for a short period, witnessed people get beaten into a pulp and doing full contact martial arts (not necessarily in that order, haha). How is that for adventure and fireworks
I dont say this to show off, on the contrary even. I am honoustly 100% scared shitless of what I will experience if I go back into the rabbithole (as this has a tendency of being even more intense then the first time you go in, trust me)
I am at the verge of my own abyss at this time, wondering if I should jump in or not…
Think about it as Jekyll and Hyde or the Hulk: always affraid of letting go as you know that what comes out may be very dark…
But then again, this isnt my blog
back on topic:
buttefly game works: point: I saw Cruise doing it constanly when I first met him almost 2 years ago.
Ask him about it: I think he will agree that now he feels like having real friends instead of ‘wings’.
Your right about the ‘projects’ women like to embark on. I often tell this to normal guys who are getting depressed of being alone all the time. THere not doing anything wrong. Just: Being too perfect gets boring … FAST.
On the 3 phases, I dont agree personally. Going after the goddesses will prove to be a windmill chase. I am not saying you shouldnt go for it, but I had 3-4 extremely good women in my bed and to be honest, some of them were the worst sex ever.
They tend to have this ‘ok, you won’ mentality which makes them absolutely apathic in bed (no sound, no initiative, no … , well, you get the idea)
You will see what I mean soon enough as I dont doubt for a moment that you will have plenty of goddesses in your life soon
take care, buddy !
Greetz
Angel
Cruise // April 17, 2009 at 9:00 pm |
Yo guys,
This topic is very interessant.
You guys are able to point out each others good and bad qualities in PU without judgement.
Respect!
You guys have both expressed the will to have more of each others qualities.
P.R. wants to be more genuine , authentic and real.
A. wants to play the game more roughly and without guilt.
I know you guys understand what I mean.
Let me first tell you that I’m fan of both your game styles.
But it is my impression that P.R. is pretty happy with his game style and has no real worries about it. I have no lessons to learn to P.R. when it comes to gaming in the true sense of the word (a game of chess – strategic – butterfly tactics and all that jazz).
His only worry, if you can call it a worry, is getting that girl. His focus is more on her, rather then on his game style because he simply makes no excuses for himself. He has the J. SOPORNO mentaity of that it or leave it. He can control his own game but he can not control the mind of bombshells. That’s the only thing that sometimes really tortures him. He is far from reactive, is very proactive, focusses on adding value to the situation, is able to manage a social situation with different persona and therefore in general expects a return for his investments.
A. on the contrary is only interested in establishing that emotional connection with a woman. He refuses war tactics, if you can call it war tactics and has certain limiting beliefs that inhibit him in his proactive successes with women.
For instance, he can understand that a woman will be attracted when you put her for a second in the frigde but is not able to do it himself, although he is changing on that level as he was fed up with the grey zone with two of his favourite girls. Maybe more that he realises, he made that decision and he himself put an end to that grey zone or claimed his value again.
Second example: he often quotes his love for woman and the fact that he’s happy with the crumbles, although he would not call it crumbles himself. He now is a bit dazzled to hear this Mister Nice Guy comment from P.R , although he thought he finally got wrid of the LJBF syndrome. One of his limiting beliefs to attack in this matter is his belief that woman are responsible for things when they finally happen. A., I have often emphasised that you deminisch your own role in (and even my role in my) success stories. The Zillion girl and the French model were indeed receptive and have chosen you. But you had alsoan important part in recognising the situation and pushing the right buttons.
I really like the description of P.R. when the fish start floating up to the surface.
I think that actually very few gamers have sensed that abundance of one night feeling when the dolls start to dance.
A. I have seen you rock in that way yet but I believe you are able to do it.
Maybe we should go to England.
That’s the place where I learned it because the girls really crave the attention and act like little girls.
It reminds me of my good old days where girls were nearly fighting for me.
Actually, since I entered the Game, I have rarely experienced that abundance again and that’s just because 1) I was less fysical attractive (less sexy and less rock & roll looks) and 2) non consistent in my game style as I preferred to try out different stuff.
Which make me conclude that the MM is the one and only BPU game that P.R. masters very well.
It’s always a pleasure to see you in action.
Hope to rock again together one day.
A. now tells us that he wants to jump.
But will he really do it and how will that look like?
Will that be casualties?
Of course not. It’s just a game. Hate the game, not the gamer.
This is really appyable to some woman because they crave it.
P.R. makes no excuses about these female masochistic wishes and even understands that woman want to save men (Projects).
Zan for instantly constantly taps into this ‘Save me from my love from woman’.
Trust me, he is not a real victim. He knows what he’s doing but so do those women.
Seduction is often the decision of two people to go on stage and seduce each other.
A., if you decide to try someting totally new, just know that, if you really get bitten by the PU-virus (as in The Intervieuw with the Vampire scene – doomed by one bite) I will be there to suck the poison back out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDu9asjWWCY&feature=related
CU guys in hell
phoenixriver // April 17, 2009 at 11:51 pm |
@Cruise&Angel: Thanks! See my next post
About being chosen. It makes me think of the following: Luck = Preparation meeting opportunity. I think this is what you mean, isn’t it?
About the butterfly ‘technique’. I was reading some AFC Adam stuff and he calls it ‘propinquity’ – building social proof and as such, major attraction. I’d definitely check him out, I like his stuff a lot – it’s genuine, human and it’s built around a social circle, not so much cold approaching. When I read it, I recognise many aspects of my own game, as well as many aspects that I could be doing better on (of course :^p)
Cruise // April 18, 2009 at 11:49 am |
That’s what I mean indeed.
Finally you can only focuss on yourself.
You have no decisions to make in her mind.
Mostly women will create the opportunity by proximity.
Men by actions.
Once a woman has spotted a men, noticed him, quickly thought about him in a dozen ways (which goes in a flic of a sec), then the roles of who wants who or who chases who changes.
In PU we call this the hookpoint.
From there on, the man will be in the drivers seat.
Attraction is not a choice.
From there he can only ruin what he perfectly created.
Credits to all the other PUA’s who have already told this stuff.
An old friend once told me: “If I wouldn’t have read The Game, I would have stayed an eternal RAFC. But know, after reading about social dynamics, I believe that you can really make a difference and create your own destiny. If I would not have been sure for 100%, I would still be in my boring marriage and without tatoe.
The tricky part in this discussion – creating & really living versus obeing & being lived – is the limit or the barrier.
Where do you draw the line?
Where can you say that it was your fault?
Where can you be mad on yourself for not pushing enough?
And where can you chill and say that it was just meant to be like that?
I think that NATURE is not controlable, such as the nature of the human mind, the nature and the free will of people.
Always keep this in mind. You can learn a dog to do tricks but one day he might bite you, so don’t be surprised if that happens.
Anyway, this was it for today folks.
I need to go for a piss.
Nature calls (-;
Angel // April 18, 2009 at 6:34 pm |
hey guys,
sorry for the late reply: no internet yet at my new place
I thank you both so much for the honest feedback: I have the highest respect for you both.
Its true indeed that the way we are seducing women is highly different. Maybe that is the fun part.
I still can learn much from you both….
Cruise, thanks for your kind words on the poison, they made my day. I will have a look for the famous scene on the balcony when I got more time.
For now, although one of the 2 girls came back in my life, I still feel like I’m taking a new start.
I dont know what it will give, but I do know that there will be one fatalitie at least… me.
The seduction arts are a dark art at times and I cannot evolve more without surrendering to them at this point.
A fire is burning…
Angel